Would you be interested about an es-AR locale of CometBird?

[system]

Hi!

I’m a CometBird user since some months and I really like it, I think it’s well done.

I’m also collaborating with the Mozilla Argentina’s L10n Team, and I was wondering if you people would be interested in an es-AR locale of CometBird. Nowadays I use the es-ES locale of CometBird 3.5.2 (which is Firefox 3.5.2’s locale, basically) but there are some big differences between both Spanish localizations: that European one and the es-AR locale version of Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2.

The Mozilla Argentina’s L10n Team has been hard-working since a long time on:

■ Mozilla Firefox download page localization at mozilla.com

■ Mozilla Firefox 1.0.x

■ Mozilla Firefox 1.5.0.x

■ Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.x

■ Mozilla Firefox 3.0.x

■ Mozilla Firefox 3.5.x

■ Flock 1.x.x

■ Flock 2.0.x

■ Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.x

■ Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5.0.x

■ Mozilla Thunderbird 2.0.0.x

■ Mozilla Thunderbird 3.0 alphas and current betas

■ Mozilla Sunbird 0.x

■ Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.0 alphas and current betas

■ Argentina Spanish dictionary

■ es-AR language packs for all of these programs

■ Spreading the word about the usage of FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)

■ Bring support (help and tips) to users of these programs

■ And other parallel projects like Mozilla Firefox’s web site es-AR translation & localization, and the development of its own web site.

One of the Mozilla Argentina’s lead members, Mr Marcelo Poli, told me that actually it wouldn’t be hard to create an es-AR locale version of CometBird because most of the CometBird 3.5.x’s text strings match seamless with current es-AR locale version of Mozilla Firefox 3.5.x (this means that most of the possible es-AR localization work of CometBird 3.5.x is already done).

If you have any doubt, please don’t hesitate to reply to this topic. Or feel free to contact Mozilla Argentina directly thru its web site.

Thank you so much in advance. Thanks for your time.

Best regards,

• Kantabrigian KNTRO.

[aimee]

thank you. the es-AR is planed to be added in the next version.

[system]

I thank you and the BitComet development team for make this possible.

I’m using CometBird 3.5.3 right now and I’ll still using it. I’m gonna tell my friends to give CometBird a try and use this as a primary or secondary web browser.

Long life to CometBird! B)

I clean forgot! Could you please replace the Spain flag by the Argentinean one at Spanish (Argentina) locale, at the CometBird download page?

Thanks again.

[sophia0316]

Could you please replace the Spain flag by the Argentinean one at Spanish (Argentina) locale, at the CometBird download page?

Thank you, I have told our team to change it.

[cassie]

Could you please replace the Spain flag by the Argentinean one at Spanish (Argentina) locale, at the CometBird download page?

Out of curiosity, why would you want to change the flag, if it’s making reference to the language? Both countries speak Castilian (Castellano) - idioms, aside. It would be like wanting to change the English flag to that of the U.S.A., Australia, Canada, etc. .

[kluelos]

But I thought there was a separate Australian version, one that said, “G’day”, and called you “mate” at every opportunity. And a Canadian version that insists it’s really better than the American version, even if they look identical to everyone else? I would be shocked, shocked, I tell you, to learn that this isn’t true.

The request actually does make sense, because the entries at the download page are

(flag) English
(flag) Spanish
(flag) Spanish (Argentina)
(flag) Japanese

etc

With the second and third entries sharing the flag of Spain.

I’m having to assume that there’s a difference between the two, sort of like US and UK versions of English (though there’s not enough difference between the two in the context of a web browser, to confuse anyone. Since the different versions do exist, they should have the correct flags to go with them.

(That, or this “nationalism run amok” door should be firmly and decisively closed. Brazilian vs. Portuguese, Irish, Scottish, and how about my own Texan? A version that says, “y’all”? No. Just, no. Get rid of the flags, use the two-letter language code rather than go down that path.)

[sophia0316]

flag changed.

[cassie]

But I thought there was a separate Australian version, one that said, “G’day”, and called you “mate” at every opportunity. And a Canadian version that insists it’s really better than the American version, even if they look identical to everyone else? I would be shocked, shocked, I tell you, to learn that this isn’t true.

:lol:

…sort of like US and UK versions of English (though there’s not enough difference between the two in the context of a web browser, to confuse anyone.

That’s exactly my point. That’s why I said that both use Castilian (as opposed to Basque (Euskera) or Catalan (Catalán), for example), idioms aside.

Get rid of the flags, use the two-letter language code rather than go down that path.)

That would be a perfect solution!! (Besides, it would give it a more “international” appearance.. )

[system]

Hello, everybody! Thanks for all of yours replies. First of all, I apologize for the delay. I’ve been kinda busy nowadays.

Out of curiosity, why would you want to change the flag, if it’s making reference to the language? Both countries speak Castilian (Castellano) - idioms, aside. It would be like wanting to change the English flag to that of the U.S.A., Australia, Canada, etc. .

cassie, the Spanish spoken in Spain has nothing to do with the Spanish spoken in Argentina. That’s already obvious (seguramente ya conocerás los famosos casos de coger ≠ tomar, tontear ≠ joder, acabar ≠ correr, concha ≠ caparazón, y un largo etcétera). However, the difference between the text strings on the Mozilla Firefox’s es-AR and es-ES locales are bigger indeed, because this has to do with how people interpret technical texts. There’re a lot of cases, but let’s just take this one: add-on, in the es-AR locale it’s agregado while in the es-ES it’s complemento. Here’s another: the es-ES locale has The Book Of Mozilla quotations translated (run Mozilla Firefox or CometBird, enter about:mozilla at the address bar and hit the Enter key), the es-AR hasn’t, because sometimes is really hard to locale English geeky humor into Spanish (the quotation’s translations at es-ES aren’t good, after all).

Anyway, it’s not about the language only, cassie. The es-ES is set by default to use Spanish-localized web searching (like Google España) and they automatically prioritize locale content. For example, if you’re in Argentina using the es-ES default settings, most of the search results in Google, Yahoo! and others search engines will be somewhat related to Spain, ONLY THEN related to Argentina. It’s upside down if you’re in Spain using the es-AR default settings: the search engine’s results will focus on Argentina-localized content mainly. Of course, you always can change these preferences, but most people don’t know how to or they actually don’t care at all, even if they need to get a locale job or buy something near in the neighborhood.

But I thought there was a separate Australian version, one that said, “G’day”, and called you “mate” at every opportunity. And a Canadian version that insists it’s really better than the American version, even if they look identical to everyone else? I would be shocked, shocked, I tell you, to learn that this isn’t true.

I’m having to assume that there’s a difference between the two, sort of like US and UK versions of English (though there’s not enough difference between the two in the context of a web browser, to confuse anyone. Since the different versions do exist, they should have the correct flags to go with them.

(That, or this “nationalism run amok” door should be firmly and decisively closed. Brazilian vs. Portuguese, Irish, Scottish, and how about my own Texan? A version that says, “y’all”? No. Just, no. Get rid of the flags, use the two-letter language code rather than go down that path.)

kluelos, in the specific case between es-AR and es-ES, yes, there’re big differences (I can’t tell about other locales because I can’t speak a lot of languages :P). The es-ES locale has almost any single word translated/localized, while the es-AR conserves a few words in English or some kind of “Spanglish Ad Hoc” (talking about the computer component, e.g., the Argentinean people say mouse, just like you, while the Spanish ones hate to call it like that, they use the word ratón, like the rodent).

Oh, Kluelos, don’t get me wrong, please. This has nothing to do with nationalism run amok, the locale versions have been created in order to help almost everyone to have a “home version” of a great web browser. In fact, one of the Mozilla Firefox’s strongest features is that, I mean, to have a LOCALE version, no matter where you call home. We’re not here to say hey, my locale version is better than yours!, no, man. If you’re American, I bet that you won’t feel very comfortable running a Great Britain English locale version or an Australian English one. You like most the en-US locale, right? That’s fine, as Great Britain people like its en-UK locale and Australian folks like its en-AU (this last one, in the case of Flock). This ain’t a locale war, this’s a global community, for God’s sake! This has to do with CHANCES, OPPORTUNITIES TO EVERYONE. Let’s don’t waste it.

flag changed.

Sophia, you’re so courteous , always notifying everyone about anything. Keep up that good work. Thanks again! I pay my respects to you.

Finally, I’d like to thanks everyone about the comments here. I’m glad of hearing everyone speaking.

Best regards!

[kluelos]

Actually, I’m very comfortable with English-UK in most cases, not so much because of my own multiculturalism, but because in this context I almost never spot a difference. There’s physical locale and then there’s cultural locale. You can make much of the differences between London, Paris and Berlin, but they’re all closer to each other than I am to New York or Los Angeles, yet EN-USA locale pretty much assumes one or the other, culturally, when both are fairly alien to me.

Actually, though I meant the Canadian example humorously, I think it’s the most apt. Many Canadians tend to have this cultural crochet about being better than the US, and can be annoyingly insistent upon it. But the idea of needing a Canadian-English interpreter to communicate with an American, is well past silly.

Let’s take your mouse example, where I think you’ll have to concede that no one on either side of the water is confused by it or misunderstands the other usage, because of the context. (And I privately think that no speakers of a language with a word like “su” in it, have any room to complain about context-dependency.)

Is catering to this sort of difference a good thing? Not for a software maker, when this just multiplies the il8n problem and turns it into a moving target. This does not reflect a hidden prejudice against, e.g., Canadians, but many react as if it were.

There is, here, a lot of silliness about “Spanglish”, for example. For English speakers, the problem is Greek, and sometimes Latin. These are new concepts, they need new words. They’re often borrowed from other languages. I’m just thankful we don’t call it a “rodentum” or something. “Mouse” is just fine in context. I do recall the time when even that was a strange concept to everyone except a few scientists at PARC, and which had to be taught. “See, it sort of LOOKS like a mouse, with its small compact body and this long cable like a tail?” But the word COULD have been something entirely different, maybe some awful acronym like POinting DevIce (“PODI”), and that’s what we’d have learned and all be using now. “Move your podi” sounds vaguely sexual.

Sometimes words, laws and sausages have something in common.

The case for cultural localization beyond a certain point has never impressed me, because it doesn’t persuasively make any difference in teaching the essential concepts. People have as much difficulty, maybe MORE, in grasping the metaphors needed to operate a computer, expressed in terms of their own language (“raton”) as in an imported one (“mouse”). It might as well all be Greek neologisms for the difference that makes. “Folder” and “sub-folder”, or “Tab” concepts remain as difficult to get across to English-speaking students, for all that the words are contemporary English. Perhaps if it were called something altogether different and unfamiliar, that would serve to anchor the concept better? It certainly couldn’t do any worse. The effort and difficulty is in learning how to use both, not in what they’re called. In this, I think more international standardization and not less, is better.

Even if it means we all click our podis.

[system]

There’s physical locale and then there’s cultural locale. You can make much of the differences between London, Paris and Berlin, but they’re all closer to each other than I am to New York or Los Angeles, yet EN-USA locale pretty much assumes one or the other, culturally, when both are fairly alien to me.

Yeah, but Londoners, Parisians and Berliners have very strong differences in their histories. You can’t compare them to the small differences between a New Yorker and an Angeleno. These American ones share a common history, while the cultural roots of each European citizen are radically different. And, you know, each culture maintains its own language.

Is catering to this sort of difference a good thing? Not for a software maker, when this just multiplies the il8n problem and turns it into a moving target. This does not reflect a hidden prejudice against, e.g., Canadians, but many react as if it were.

That’s why software libre works so great, and that’s why we all need the global communities. You could make a great program, and wanna share it with everybody around the world, but you can’t even speak Traditional Chinese or Argentina’s Spanish. So, what do you do? Yo let all the people around the world localize your program. That’s how a good software spreads thru word of mouth quickly. It works, trust me.

There is, here, a lot of silliness about “Spanglish”, for example. For English speakers, the problem is Greek, and sometimes Latin. These are new concepts, they need new words. They’re often borrowed from other languages. I’m just thankful we don’t call it a “rodentum” or something. “Mouse” is just fine in context. I do recall the time when even that was a strange concept to everyone except a few scientists at PARC, and which had to be taught. “See, it sort of LOOKS like a mouse, with its small compact body and this long cable like a tail?” But the word COULD have been something entirely different, maybe some awful acronym like POinting DevIce (“PODI”), and that’s what we’d have learned and all be using now. “Move your podi” sounds vaguely sexual.

Well, today, you have things like iPod, modem, codec, Hi-Fi… Anyway, PODI sounds really good… Imagine your grandma saying Where’s the pointer?! I can’t see it! And you replying her with something like Shake your podi, granma! :lol:

The case for cultural localization beyond a certain point has never impressed me, because it doesn’t persuasively make any difference in teaching the essential concepts. People have as much difficulty, maybe MORE, in grasping the metaphors needed to operate a computer, expressed in terms of their own language (“raton”) as in an imported one (“mouse”). It might as well all be Greek neologisms for the difference that makes. “Folder” and “sub-folder”, or “Tab” concepts remain as difficult to get across to English-speaking students, for all that the words are contemporary English. Perhaps if it were called something altogether different and unfamiliar, that would serve to anchor the concept better? It certainly couldn’t do any worse. The effort and difficulty is in learning how to use both, not in what they’re called. In this, I think more international standardization and not less, is better.

I agree. Kindda. You see, sometimes it’s hard to tell what are the essential concepts. How do you know if ratón is a essential term in Spain? Why not just mouse and it’s done? Well, that’s the problem: you can’t choose by everybody else. You can’t say This word’s the correct one in your language. This must be the one. Languages are incommensurate, they’re parallel paradigms. If you’re not a native spoken person, you may never understand if a word in other language is essential or if it doesn’t. That’s a task for localized groups, around the globe. I speak Spanish, but I could never help Spaniards on the es-ES locale, because my Spanish is different from theirs, and I’d like to call that computer component simply mouse, while they’d insist about ratón. They’re just different cults, that’s all.

There’s another issue yet. The native languages, like Quechua. How do you explain an ethnic group what’s a cookie or what SSL stand for and what’s that? Yeah, it’s something to be busy as a beaver, doubtless.

Whatever… that was offtopic. Sorry.

Speaking of the devil, please don’t forget to check and notify this to the BitComent Development Team’s lead members.

Thanks for sharing yours opinions with me, kluelos. B)

Best regards, buddy.

[greywizard]

Speaking of the devil, please don’t forget to check and notify this to the BitComent Development Team’s lead members.

You can always PM sophia just to be sure. She’s the usual liaison with the development team.

[system]

Thanks, greywizard.

I just PM’ed Ms Sophia. Is she okay? Her last login was on September 24, 2009 at 12:40 AM. :mellow:

Anyway, thank you for the tip and sorry about this delay.

Best regards.

[greywizard]

Well, we just got word that sophia well be away for a few weeks. But when she’ll be back, be sure you’ll hear from her.

Other than that, if you’re in a hurry, you can try and talk to The UnUsual Suspect, but I’m not sure how often he gets in touch with the team. As I said sophia is our usual liaison and I haven’t seen gavin on the forum recently, either.

So, just let it marinate for now. B)